Saturday, September 23, 2006
FRIENDS
It is a group of Christians in Rotterdam ... so happy I find other brothers and sisters in Christ in here as well ... Please pray that this group can be a blessing to people around us here and for me as well ...
Holland people does not really believe in Jesus anymore, and they love partying, getting drunk and the lifestyle makes it a bit hard for people to know God ... Well, that may be my general observation, which may be unfair, but I definitely am having a hard time having conversation with some people in here ... The interest is different, the culture is different, different ways of thinking, etc ....
Holland people does not really believe in Jesus anymore, and they love partying, getting drunk and the lifestyle makes it a bit hard for people to know God ... Well, that may be my general observation, which may be unfair, but I definitely am having a hard time having conversation with some people in here ... The interest is different, the culture is different, different ways of thinking, etc ....
Friday, September 22, 2006
Charismatic church and Reformed church!
Matthew 7:4
How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?
I have been thinking about the issue between the different churches ... I was involved with a group of christians who happen to be from a charismatic churches in Rotterdam .... I did not know that at the time and when I asked about what denomination their church was, one of the guy whom I was in contact with said "We are definitely not catholics and therefore therefore that makes us charismatic and reformed then. But we are a good church, I tell you why because we always put God as priority in our life and that is a sign of a good Christian" ....
I was impressed by his answer and decided to join the cell group once .... I also saw their website and they put 1 Cor 11-12 where you don't speak in tongue at church as one of the thing that they believe in ... I felt this church was ok and we had a cell group one afternoon after having dinner ... They were very welcoming ... I was trying to find out more about their church during the cell group, coz it did not really say on the website ... But I couldn't figure out what kind of church it was ... After i visited their church the next Sunday in Delft (another city) it was clear to me that they are charismatic .... They even invited 2 prophets that week and they prophesied to the conggregations ... The prophets prophesied and said things like "I feel there is someone with bla bla bla" ... "Together you two are dynamite couple bla bla bla" .... and so on ....
I felt a bit unease within me, but there was one thing which I could not agree with him regarding the prayer that he prayed ..... From what I gathered, he prayed about the apostolic movement ... not sure what he meant by that, but I think it was related to charismatic movement .... He was preaching from the gospel and discussed about how the religious order at that time oppose the blind man who had been healed by Jesus .... The blind man was ordered to go to Siloam lake, which also means apostolic after Jesus put mud in his eyes ... He was then healed and he associated that with apostolic movement .... He then prayed for "division", asking for it in prayer ..... I thought it was very wrong to pray like that especially when you claim yourself to be a prophet .... Even Jesus prayed for unity among his disciples .... If he regards established religious order at Jesus time the same as other Christians nowadays, then he has prayed something not according to the bible ....
After that event, I decided to leave the cell group .... Being me, I felt uneasy again ... It is like I was being discriminating against charismatic churches .... If Jesus was there, or Paul was there, wouldn't they stay and try to fix things up .... But again I thought, who am I to fix this? I may be able to present my case in a cell group but that may lead to unending arguments and division among the group members ... I felt no peace during that time thinking what should I do ....
In the end I decided to leave the cell group and possibly join another one in rotterdam, but I definitely still want to keep in touch with them one way or another .... I regard the rotterdam cell group members as my bro and sis in Christ (not the church though) ... They live a different life to other dutch students here and I can see Christ in their life ....
The question remain though ... Is it a wise decision to do so? Would you do the same or differently?
Personally, I made the decision not because I am discriminating against charismatic churches or the cell groups .... There is no perfect church in this world because it consists of imperfect human beings .... I believe God uses charismatic church these days to bring his people to him too (I am one living example), so does reformed churches, and we should work together to bring the gospel to nations .... I left because I believe that some of the things they are doing is not according to the bible and I feel it would be better for me to grow with other christians from the reformed denomination .... I will not feel peace in my heart if I keep joining the cell group unless I bring forward my case on certain things .... Nonetheless, I accepted my cell group members as my brother and sister in Christ .... I wanna keep praying for them, so they grow in the true knowledge of God!!
Maybe enough sharing for now!! lol ...
How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?
I have been thinking about the issue between the different churches ... I was involved with a group of christians who happen to be from a charismatic churches in Rotterdam .... I did not know that at the time and when I asked about what denomination their church was, one of the guy whom I was in contact with said "We are definitely not catholics and therefore therefore that makes us charismatic and reformed then. But we are a good church, I tell you why because we always put God as priority in our life and that is a sign of a good Christian" ....
I was impressed by his answer and decided to join the cell group once .... I also saw their website and they put 1 Cor 11-12 where you don't speak in tongue at church as one of the thing that they believe in ... I felt this church was ok and we had a cell group one afternoon after having dinner ... They were very welcoming ... I was trying to find out more about their church during the cell group, coz it did not really say on the website ... But I couldn't figure out what kind of church it was ... After i visited their church the next Sunday in Delft (another city) it was clear to me that they are charismatic .... They even invited 2 prophets that week and they prophesied to the conggregations ... The prophets prophesied and said things like "I feel there is someone with bla bla bla" ... "Together you two are dynamite couple bla bla bla" .... and so on ....
I felt a bit unease within me, but there was one thing which I could not agree with him regarding the prayer that he prayed ..... From what I gathered, he prayed about the apostolic movement ... not sure what he meant by that, but I think it was related to charismatic movement .... He was preaching from the gospel and discussed about how the religious order at that time oppose the blind man who had been healed by Jesus .... The blind man was ordered to go to Siloam lake, which also means apostolic after Jesus put mud in his eyes ... He was then healed and he associated that with apostolic movement .... He then prayed for "division", asking for it in prayer ..... I thought it was very wrong to pray like that especially when you claim yourself to be a prophet .... Even Jesus prayed for unity among his disciples .... If he regards established religious order at Jesus time the same as other Christians nowadays, then he has prayed something not according to the bible ....
After that event, I decided to leave the cell group .... Being me, I felt uneasy again ... It is like I was being discriminating against charismatic churches .... If Jesus was there, or Paul was there, wouldn't they stay and try to fix things up .... But again I thought, who am I to fix this? I may be able to present my case in a cell group but that may lead to unending arguments and division among the group members ... I felt no peace during that time thinking what should I do ....
In the end I decided to leave the cell group and possibly join another one in rotterdam, but I definitely still want to keep in touch with them one way or another .... I regard the rotterdam cell group members as my bro and sis in Christ (not the church though) ... They live a different life to other dutch students here and I can see Christ in their life ....
The question remain though ... Is it a wise decision to do so? Would you do the same or differently?
Personally, I made the decision not because I am discriminating against charismatic churches or the cell groups .... There is no perfect church in this world because it consists of imperfect human beings .... I believe God uses charismatic church these days to bring his people to him too (I am one living example), so does reformed churches, and we should work together to bring the gospel to nations .... I left because I believe that some of the things they are doing is not according to the bible and I feel it would be better for me to grow with other christians from the reformed denomination .... I will not feel peace in my heart if I keep joining the cell group unless I bring forward my case on certain things .... Nonetheless, I accepted my cell group members as my brother and sister in Christ .... I wanna keep praying for them, so they grow in the true knowledge of God!!
Maybe enough sharing for now!! lol ...
Rotterdam update 2
3.5 weeks has already passed since I came to Holland, and here I am sitting down in my room working on these assignments ... lol ... I couldn't believe how much work I had to do for my courses and it probably will occupy myself for the next 1.5 months or so before it eases a bit ... There are maybe 16 assignments that I have to do in the next 1.5 months. On top of that, I still have my big business project to work on ... crazy!
Hhhhh ... But here I am, trying to survive in a new country and balance off between studying and travelling ... I was thinking of looking for a job as well, but given the uni workload, I don't think I want to work anymore ... I have been to a few places around Holland such as Hemskerk, Amsterdam, Rotterdam (of course), and Delft ... There were some nice places and sightseeing was very enjoyable ... I will show the photos later on ....
A few highlights from my trip so far:
Hhhhh ... But here I am, trying to survive in a new country and balance off between studying and travelling ... I was thinking of looking for a job as well, but given the uni workload, I don't think I want to work anymore ... I have been to a few places around Holland such as Hemskerk, Amsterdam, Rotterdam (of course), and Delft ... There were some nice places and sightseeing was very enjoyable ... I will show the photos later on ....
A few highlights from my trip so far:
- I met my exchange friends during my so-called integration trip to Hemskerk ... We stayed in "stayok" hostel in there, very cheap but nice hostel ... In Europe, backpackers usually stay in a hostel because it is cheaper and they get to know other people who are travelling at the same time .... "stayok" hostel is probaby the biggest hostels in holland as far as I know and they have many hostels around Holland .... It was a nice getting-to-know others trip but it was a pity that I did not have my camera during the trip ... My camera was being sent from Indo at that time since we forgot to put it in my bag ... lol
The trip was fun, full of activities .... The whole idea for the trip was to prepare ourselves for the business project that I am doing now ..... We learnt how to work as a team, and getting to know and trust our team members .... I learnt a few things like how to juggle three balls like clown in a circus ... hahaha ... or to paint on a canvas (van gogh style) ... I did not get anywhere with this btw ... I am bad at drawing ... - My trip to Delft was a classic .... Delft is quite small city, very dutch ... I went there with some of my exchange buddies and we basically just going around the city .... I visited this BIG BIG church and we climbed the stairs .... the people in the church told us that it was more than 350 stairs going up ... That was a lot of stairs and it felt like forever going up the church tower ... And guess what, sudah sampai atas, I was scared ... takut tinggi!! haha ... We also went on a cruise trip around delft, but it was a pity that the tour guide spoke in Dutch ...
- Amsterdam was different ... It was bigger than rotterdam, but as a capital city, it is pretty small compared to cities in Australia or Indonesia ... Btw, cities in holland are like that ... They are small but very close to each other ... It only took us 15 minutes to go from Rotterdam to Delft ... Amsterdam was around 45 minutes by train ...
Amsterdam is full of an old architecture ... So those architects might enjoy it there ... I can't really appreciate them other than just starring at them with a fake awe ... lol ... But the thing that I enjoyed the most was when I visited van gogh museum ... The museum displays a collection of van gogh painting and it tells a story of his life since he started painting to end ... It was sad because he actually killed himself ... I sort of feel the frustation, stresses, happiness, joy, and other emotions through his strokes .... His style is impressionist if I am not wrong ... I looked at them with a big jaw-drop since I know how hard it is to paint from my integration trip and to be able to produce such an art is remarkable .... I just thoroughly enjoyed it, my first visit to museum EVER was Van gogh ... Awesome .... !!!! Next museum to visit is probably Rijke museum ... It is the biggest museum in Holland and apparently my friend said it is awesome too .... - Rotterdam: very modern city, a center of trade, a hub to europe and has an awesome ports ... Like other cities in Holland, it is not that big and it is not too hard to get familiar with the city ... Ga banyak architectural buildings around here, tapi I personally like modern city (I am not a fan of classical architecture) ... I am starting to enjoy my life here, it is not as bad as my first week I guess .... I have internet at home now and it helps a lot since I don't have to go to uni to do research or just check email ...
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